Curse

Mouse at Large · Jul 28, 2011, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I thought it was a pretty fair and balanced article. In such a short piece, you are never going to be able to cover everyone's personal peeves.

And on a more personal note, I've been playing this game for close on 6 years. I recognise it isn't perfect (then again what is??). However, I do consider that it's provided me with extremely good value.

If I felt the same way as many of the moaners/doomsayers/serial complaniers here, I'd simply give up on GW and go do something else more pleasant. Nobody is forcing you to carry on playing a game that obviously causes you such distress and frustration....

urania · Jul 28, 2011, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Nope, I know Im not wrong. I wrote that players were complaining that the Mysticism line was crap, not that it actually was bad. I personally like some of the old Avatars more than the new ones as well.. it doesnt mean that Anet is doign somethign wrong... it just means that I have to look for or create better builds with the currently available skills.

you said dervs weren't OP in the past. and thats just plain wrong.
and anet is doing a lot of things wrong - but they're following their own agenda, one that will never again provide the game with a quality pvp experience it used to give.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Look at all the threads in this forum (mostly in the Sardelac subfoum) how many "Dervishes are crap" threads there are before the update. The point of this discussion is not "is Anet doing a great job of making every single player with every single complaint happy" (which would be impossible anyways), but "Is Anet listening to its playerbase or not?"

I don't read pve forum sections (and often now, pvp sections are just as misleading) when looking for balance feedback, and neither should anet.
if they do pvp skill balancing, they should consult quality and insightful pvp player base only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

The answer is: Yes, Anet is quite deffinitely listening to its playerbase.

no.

in addition to what i have already posted, i will repeat what many others have already posted (in this very thread too): the pvp player base did, by no means whatsoever, ask for the most recent mesmer and dervish updates. nor did it call for any other random buff that resulted in months of broken meta and vast abuse of a few overpowered builds, which subsequently killed off 'creativity' (as pve-oriented player base so likes to complain about) and the chance to run anything else but that meta and still stay competitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

People complain about the game being dead and Anet not doing anything except for churning out new microtransaction crap. There have however been some really big content and skill updates since you bought the game for which you did not have to spend a single cent for;

the game IS dead. but not so much player-number-wise as it is competition-wise.

on a side note, how ironic is it that about 12 out of 18 of the things you listed are strictly pve-related. mind that the part about the game being dead never did and never will apply for pve. pvp needs a critical mass of 3 tiers of player types: high end veterans, middle range good and improving player base and low end begginers - a drop in population as well as low competition walk hand in hand and mutually influence each other.
none of that holds true in pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

As you can see, Anet is far from the money grabbing lazy company that some are putting them out to be. OK, they could do more, but lets face it. Their main goal at the moment is to complete GW2 and get it out for sale so that they can make enough money to carry on giving out free updates with no monthly fees for their clients.

its not so much anet as it is NCSoft that wants to squeeze the last drop out of GW, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Guild Wars PvP would have been MUCH better off if ANet stopped updating any skills right before the removal of VoD and the two big Elite Skill updates. Discuss.

i'd love seeing an arena that with old school proph skills only.

Silmar Alech · Jul 28, 2011, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I don't understand the acid comments about Arenanet's support of the game. The game was never better than today, seen from a technical and gameplay perspective. I play now for 4 years, and the game was continuously improved - never made worse. There were bugs and problems with some updates, of course, but these were always fixed in time according to their severity.

There are always minor problems in such a complex system, but nothing so serious like it sound in those remarks. They seem to tell that Prophecies on release day was the best game ever and after that every new campaign and update only made the game less fun. Nothing is more far from the truth.

The truth is that the game experience today is the best there ever was. The problem today is the dwindling player base, but this is due to the age of the game, not due to the quality of the game.

Coast · Jul 28, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Should of let everything how it was,except stupid stuff like iway/spiritstacking...
PVP wise the game would been way better (quality) + it would not matter if it was stale.
Rather stale and kinda balanced then unbalanced and stale.

AndrewSX · Jul 28, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Somethings jumped on my mind reading this...

-GW is fee-free.
Whatever we got, even if wasn't perfect or a bit lackuster, were free. WiK, WoC, all the work previously done like furnace...all for free. Now seriously. For -let's say 80$ (if bought the 4 campaigns on release)- how many game houses gave us such quality of game updates, still going after 6 years? (Frequency/quality may have dropped, but they're still giving it).

-the perfect balance don't exist, expecially in the actual state of the game.
Powercreep, Skill proliferation, not-so-wise updates may have made it even more problematic, but this is another story. About Anet working on it over years....can't really say. But stuff got reworked or nerfed or revamped or fixed. Again, maybe not perfectly.

-the age problem is inavoidable, expecially if you consider when anet released a real new expansion/campaign. WiK, WoC aren't simply enough to keep alive a game. Ask to (plz don't kill me for mentioning this name, is just an example!

) WoW.
[age problem is population problem. I almost never played with a human till unlocked HM.
Also, for lesser note, most of minor language districts (i'm italian, and saw this very well) are simply DESERT.]

Just my ideas.

Skyy High · Jul 28, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmar Alech

I don't understand the acid comments about Arenanet's support of the game. The game was never better than today, seen from a technical and gameplay perspective. I play now for 4 years, and the game was continuously improved - never made worse.

I'm assuming you don't play PvP much. That's where all the "acid comments" are mainly coming from. That, and bitterness that SF farming has been in the game for as long as it has been, I think.

Elfblade · Jul 28, 2011, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

. The point of this discussion is not "is Anet doing a great job of making every single player with every single complaint happy" (which would be impossible anyways), but "Is Anet listening to its playerbase or not?"

The answer is: Yes, Anet is quite deffinitely listening to its playerbase.

Anet listens to the community for pve and content that is asked for, i got my than my money worth out of guildwars. I dont think many people disagree.

But Anet does not listen to the community in terms of pvp update the last few years. They do not adress the problems there are. The remakes of the dervish was needed but was very harmful to guildwars pvp. Post update you can see how anet does not listen to the community on what should be fixed about dervishes(they fixed some problems that are there). currently its not a minority that is satisfied about pvp balance but a huge majority.

Willie Lumpkin · Jul 28, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Personally, I never got into PvP because I started GW some time after launch, and by that time a thriving metagame had already developed -- one complex enough that it seemed too much work to research what was currently being played and how to adapt and counter.

THAT, in my opinion, is the main problem with GW PvP: in its current form it's too complex, regardless of skill balance. You don't get many new players anymore because it's hard to get into such a complex environment. On the other hand, something like a competitive shooter is much easier to get into, as you can hone your skills before ever getting into the competitive scene, and there are fewer complexities and intricacies and interrelationships.

The intention to streamline GW2 with fewer skills, partially predetermined bars, and much greater flexibility is a step in the right direction. In GW1 PvP, if my team was built to counter one strategy and the enemy runs another, it'll be very hard to adapt on the fly, given that you can't swap skills or gear mid-combat. In GW2, though, if I'm playing a fire Ele and the enemy team has plenty of fire resistance, I can swap attunement. In turn, the enemy will adapt to my new damage type, and so on.

Missing HB · Jul 28, 2011, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Red resign was one of the reasons why Hero Battles were removed... players were then warned that it was match manipulation and red resigning in matches has become a lot less common.

You obviously don't play PvP nor read forums a lot, do you?

But well yes, assuming it was the reason they removed it ,i guess people are still allowed to do the same kind of abuse in GvG, Codex or even in HA( check second accounts syncers on dead hours that get no restarts at all...)

Codex Arena was typically the arena that could solve problems( in terms of crap metas, inactivity considering it was 4v4 and not 8v8 like GvG)... but it was let down from start, having no link with capture points, not getting any form of automated tournaments and not getting any update on the future, except making syncers earn a strongbox for each 5 wins....

PvE is just getting too much love compared to PvP, which isn't necessarly needed...

tealspikes · Jul 28, 2011, 04:35 PM // 16:35

The amount of attention the game gets is incredible, and if something is broken, it won’t be for long.

had to lol at this

urania · Jul 28, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

stop comparing GW to shooter games.
if you think the current state f the game is complex (in terms of skill demand and skil reward), then you're fairly ignorant.

Willie Lumpkin · Jul 28, 2011, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

stop comparing GW to shooter games.
if you think the current state f the game is complex (in terms of skill demand and skil reward), then you're fairly ignorant.

Way to nitpick a minor analogy and not even address the point at all. Sounds like trolling to me. But whatever, I'll bite.

There are 1,235 skills and 90 profession combinations, ignoring the more minor aspects like runes/insignias and weapons. How am I fairly ignorant to think that those numbers translate to a fairly complex PvP metagame? I know that some skills are better than others, and some skills work better in combination with specific counterparts -- but there are an awful lot of possibilities to consider.

And anyway, I don't even care about the total possible number of combinations, so much as how hard it is for a new player to learn all the viable ones.

Elfblade · Jul 28, 2011, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin

Way to nitpick a minor analogy and not even address the point at all. Sounds like trolling to me. But whatever, I'll bite.

There are 1,235 skills and 90 profession combinations, ignoring the more minor aspects like runes/insignias and weapons. How am I fairly ignorant to think that those numbers translate to a fairly complex PvP metagame? I know that some skills are better than others, and some skills work better in combination with specific counterparts -- but there are an awful lot of possibilities to consider.

And anyway, I don't even care about the total possible number of combinations, so much as how hard it is for a new player to learn all the viable ones.

Pvp is all about learning your profession,most of all networking, a willing guild to play pvp and last understanding of tactics and strategies. It means handling your role in the team so it benefits to the result. Metagame is just the bar your running. If you can play a proffession, you should be able to adapt to any build without much difficulty.

For you as a player the metagame is just a small part of playing pvp.

edit: Did you write the review?

Artisan Archer · Jul 28, 2011, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Zaishen Mission/Bounty/PVP
Many monthly skillupdates until they changed to periodic large updates
Information on the HOM in terms of preparing for GW2 before it is released
Ritualist update
Mesmer update
Dervish update
Razzah being a changeable primary proffession hero (basically a free Mercenary for anyone who has Nightfall)

4 of those only made the game worse, the other 3 were tiny updates they could probably have made in 1 day's work (combined). I'll let you figure out which is which.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

[*]Loads of smaller updates that the players have been requesting such as being able to log in offline or being able to check a box next to your name to show you are ready before a mission instead of typing 1.

That was about the best update the game had in 2 years. Says alot.

Swingline · Jul 28, 2011, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin

There are 1,235 skills and 90 profession combinations, ignoring the more minor aspects like runes/insignias and weapons. How am I fairly ignorant to think that those numbers translate to a fairly complex PvP metagame? I know that some skills are better than others, and some skills work better in combination with specific counterparts -- but there are an awful lot of possibilities to consider.

The massive amount of skills was one of the main reasons Anet abandoned GW1 because of the sheer amount of work that had to be put in to balance such a complex skill system. People say the game would have been better off without the rit,sin,para and derv but it seems to me its the new skills that were released every expansion for existing professions that did not need to be put into the game. It would have been a whole new ball game if those extra skills hadn't been put into the game.

Missing HB · Jul 28, 2011, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The massive amount of skills was one of the main reasons Anet abandoned GW1 because of the sheer amount of work that had to be put in to balance such a complex skill system. People say the game would have been better off without the rit,sin,para and derv but it seems to me its the new skills that were released every expansion for existing professions that did not need to be put into the game. It would have been a whole new ball game if those extra skills hadn't been put into the game.

I'm not sure to be honest...If it was that hard to handle, then why didn't they go on with codex arena or costume brawl, which obviously wouldn't require any skill balancing....

And even for PvE, although there are some skills way too overpowered, you can still play almost anything and kill/get rewards..

Swingline · Jul 28, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

I'm not sure to be honest...If it was that hard to handle, then why didn't they go on with codex arena or costume brawl, which obviously wouldn't require any skill balancing....

And even for PvE, although there are some skills way too overpowered, you can still play almost anything and kill/get rewards..

No one wants to pay for a watered down game where 90% of the skills are restricted for a day in every pvp format. That type of game play can be fun for an arena if done right but not for every pvp format. I sincerely think arena net just lacked the foresight to see the complex skill system they were creating. GWs was their first game after all.

Arena Nets main focus for skill balances has always been PvP. This can be seen by how long SF has been the way it is. PvE really does not matter much compared to PvP in the skill balance department.

Estic · Jul 28, 2011, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

The answer is: Yes, Anet is quite deffinitely listening to its playerbase.

no.

in addition to what i have already posted, i will repeat what many others have already posted (in this very thread too): the pvp player base did, by no means whatsoever, ask for the most recent mesmer and dervish updates. nor did it call for any other random buff that resulted in months of broken meta and vast abuse of a few overpowered builds, which subsequently killed off 'creativity' (as pve-oriented player base so likes to complain about) and the chance to run anything else but that meta and still stay competitive.

yes.

The pvp playerbase is too small to be of any interest to Anet. PvE is where the playerbase is and hence where the money is (see: minitransactions). So: listening to the playerbase = listening to the PvE players = no interest in balance.

*lemming* · Jul 28, 2011, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Try to keep in mind the target audience of this writeup. An evaluation of Anet's history of inadequacies honestly doesn't pertain to someone just getting the game who just wants to PvE casually for a few weeks.

Rushin Roulette · Jul 28, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Thsi is exactly what I wrote in my last post. PvP players whining that Anet is doing nothing although Anet is catering to the Majority of the players. PvP is still getting updates, just not as big as PvE is getting, but lets face it. PvP is just a small part of the game and most of teh players dont even go near it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

The problem is however that there are so many players with so many different views that, no matter what Anet does, some part of the players are guaranteed to complain and these complainers will blend out the updated/skillchanges/bugfixes as "My problems were not addressed, so Anet is being lazy and not doing anything".

But thanks for proving my point ( "My problems were not addressed, so Anet is being lazy and not doing anything") with your posts about Anet not doing anything against all proof and others also saying that Anet is doing fine.